Comments on: Is This Authentic & Vintage, Or Graceless Legalism

By: Rhonda Pelsy Bertram

Rhonda Pelsy Bertram — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:07:08 +0000

Ed: I really don’t know if [younger] people want to be offered insight. In my younger days, I wanted to do things ‘my way’. I considered my Mother outdated and what could she possibly know about anything other than what she was going to make for dinner on a particular day. Growing up she would offer bits of wisdom from her own life experiences which I promptly tossed into my mental file of things to be deleted. As you grow up, the windows of opportunity to ‘share’ any of your life lessons learned become few and far between as well as anyone coming to you and asking advice, i.e., “what do I do in a situation such as this.” As an adult, I have embraced the faith of my Mother and the reason for that is that as I went on my own way in life and gathered my list of “why did I choose to do that” things, I realized that she was right. The only way I was able to come to that realization was from my own screw-ups, then I had something to compare my experiences vs. what my Mother had said. And, based on all of that, I can/did/still do say to my own children, that the faith of their Grandmother stands and has proven itself over time. I saw my Mother cling to it in times of trial and I have followed that example. I don’t think you can provide someone with a bullet-point list of things to do and don’t do in life, because for the most part, they won’t follow it. People want to make their own way. However, when the proverbial brick wall appears and they run into it, perhaps that is the window of opportunity we all need to be aware of and be ready to offer some sort of answer should we be called upon to do that. Thanks.

By: Ed Bahler

Ed Bahler — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:21:45 +0000

Rhonda,

Thanks for your important thoughts about redeeming our time and trusting in his mercy and healing.

The ability to better understand their life does matter doesn’t it. I think we all agree. However, in my post earlier this week I ask the older crowd to offer some insight they have picked up along the way….and….. few feel free or compelled to offer. That is so very interesting! Hummm, what do you make of it?

By: Ed Bahler

Ed Bahler — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:17:16 +0000

Lex,

I really appreciate your “wisdom made communal thought”. These digital tools really are quite powerful aren’t they.

Your explanation of wisdom versus legalism is so clear and compelling as well. Thanks for the effort to share and enhance this learning experience in such a significant way.

Your insights matter. Well done!

By: Rhonda Pelsy Bertram

Rhonda Pelsy Bertram — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:39:09 +0000

Ed: While this may be off the topic a bit, I wanted to comment on your comments about [our] grandparents. I appreciated your adding her poem to your blog and introducing a different ‘side’ of her that I didn’t know. I didn’t know our grandfather well, but inspite of his obvious shortcomings in life, he WAS saved at the 11th hour and that in and of itself can be his own testimony of how not to live a life, of how not to waste the years we are given. This needs to be acknowledged. I think so many of us think we have so much time to correct things or have the ‘I’ll tend to this or that tomorrow’. I imagine what it would have been like to be him, accepting Christ right before death, and thinking about what could have been or what should have been done with his family and the people around him. We don’t know what went through his mind or what regrets he felt or what prayers he said. We do know, however, that this is another example of the grace and mercy of our Lord, who can heal all things and give us a new outlook on the things life has given us, good or bad. And in that perspective, there is wisdom. Thanks.
Rhonda

By: Lex

Lex — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:32:23 +0000

Expanding:

I think wisdom-made-communal is key to reaching my generation, and I think the example of Grandma’s poem does it two ways: via unassuming language (she’s reflecting on herself, not dictating behavior to others), and via digital communication (it never would have found an audience on a piece of paper like it has – and will – on your blog).

We want wisdom. We want to know how to weather the storms and how to interpret the things that life throws at us. But we’re not stupid either. Tell me that “I tell who I am by the things that I wear,” and let me figure it out; don’t hand me a uniform.

I think that’s why the poem is wisdom and not legalism. Legalism seems to give orders, and make up consequences for not obeying those orders. Wisdom is someone who has experienced a piece of life and learned from it; it’s offered, not forced.

By: Marla Saunders

Marla Saunders — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 16:20:31 +0000

Ed, I think our grandmothers were related. Not really…but I have a whole collection of her poems that also remind me to guard my heart and watch my footsteps. I remember going through an age in my own life where I thought the poems — while interesting — were stuck in their own age and not relevant to the current day. Now, after reading your grandmother’s, I’m thinking about how the authentic really is fresh again. This is a topic I haven’t thought much about before, and now I’m wanting to dig out those old poems and ponder.

On the flip side, it’s easy to romanticize and see the past through jaded lenses. In adapting authentic and vintage to a digital age, the real essence of the experience has to be extracted…not just the outward tone or form.

Great thoughts for this morning for me. I’m out of town attending the funeral of an 82 year old man who was a second father to me. Listening yesterday to the comments on his life, I realized again the beauty of a life that is completely integrated, fits together, and is lived with driving faith and integrity.

By: Ed Bahler

Ed Bahler — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:28:13 +0000

Ann,

It’s no surprise you connect with this I guess. You always reflected that stick to it…hang tough spirit Ann. Just like grandma and mom. All three of you are special.

It’s interesting you express the desire to talk with grandma. My mom, now 84, said the same thing this week. Mom wishes she could talk with her again now that mom has the added insight of the last 25 years. We never quit learning and discovering. Isn’t that interesting. God keeps churning our hearts.

You always make me smile Ann. Thanks for all the joy you’ve brought.

Dad

By: Ed Bahler

Ed Bahler — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:20:42 +0000

Trena,

It is a rich piece to pass down isn’t it. You saw my daughter Ann’s reaction above. It touched me the same. I had tears in my eyes as I wrote it. Grandma really did have a hard walk. But what an example.

True confessions here. The tractor is from Google Images…sorry.

I do like your sequel idea allot. We might be straying a bit from the intent of this blog but it’s good stuff. Thanks for thinking with me here to enhance the conversation. We’ll do it soon.

By: Ed Bahler

Ed Bahler — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:14:11 +0000

Oh,…Mike!

What a pleasant surprise. I haven’t seen you in so many years. But here we connect in the bloggosphere. How interesting. It’s one of the big opportunities we, and the church, must seize today. Just how do we incorporate this new medium in our efforts to connect our churches and our families? And, even to connect ourselves.

I was in Nashville a few weeks back and thought about you. But my schedule was jammed full from morning until late in the evening.

It’s interesting to think we’re still wrestling with this sanctification, holiness, grace, love subject huh? I must confess, it remains a bit of a mystery where the line between “saved by grace and not of works” and “faith without works is dead” actually is. And, maybe because there may not be one at the end of all the pondering. Just a struggle of the heart with us and God.

I sense grandma’s hard life got her to the “just her and God” point. Her poem reflects that peace and ownership of simply wanting to be like Jesus. It seems it takes the “hard stuff” to get any of us there.

Thanks for sharing here Mike. We all have valuable perspectives that fit wonderfully together – Cor 12.

By: Mike

Mike — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:22:43 +0000

Ed,
You ask where I’m from. In order to place me, think back to your roommates from almost 30 years ago. One of the most memorable discussions we had in that year involved this very topic, sanctification and holy living.

Mike

By: Ann

Ann — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:49:09 +0000

Dad, I love this post and poem. It reminded me of your mom. =o) I, at a few weeks from 25 think this poem is very true and that I would have loved to meet and chat with this women who showed she was a good soldier of the faith. She makes me want to keep the faith just reading about her life.

By: Trena

Trena — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:50:33 +0000

Thanks for sharing the wonderful poem from “our” grandmother! I will pass this lovely keepsake on to my daughters and grandson. And who is on the tractor? Grandpa? If so, can you email it to me? I’d love to have it. Did you know about her special cornbread made from sour cream, and how she would give it and fresh milk to drifters who came by the farm? I’d say she practiced her poem. I’m enjoying your comments from the 20s and 30s. How ’bout a sequel to that in the way of replies from those who are at least 50-55, and who have also been in church(es) since early childhood. Big prerequisite for the privilege of commenting! I wonder if we have any hindsight? Would we have done things differently had we known then what we know now? Could we say something in the way of encouragement to those who are seeking direction?

Warm greetings….Trena

By: Ed Bahler

Ed Bahler — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:57:20 +0000

Thanks Mike for your kind thoughts. It reminds me of a family Proverb of ours – Keep your heart with all diligence for out of it are the issues of life. By the way, where you from?

Lex, I really appreciate your heart and expressions. God has blessed you with a special freshness. And to think an old woman born before the automobile, electricity, and the telephone could connect with a digital ager. That’s remarkable when you think about it. There is nothing new under the sun!

Can you expand on the “wisdom made communal” thought?

Tyrone – Ah, we are known by our friends. Dad often quoted. ” a company is known by the people it keeps.” You bring up an interesting point. There is an important balance here between the past and the future. I thnk we all feel compelled to be thrivers!

Thanks for the blog compliment!

By: Tyrone B.

Tyrone B. — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:36:52 +0000

Ed,
I love the new look for the blog.

By: Tyrone B.

Tyrone B. — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:04:47 +0000

Your grandmother’s poem is not legalism, its just wisdom. I love the way the poem starts.
Everything after the first line of the poem is affected by the truth of the first line. The law of association, works like the law of gravity.
There is an old adage that says, “Show me your frieands, and I will show you, your future”.

There is nothing wrong with gaining wisdom from another’s experience, but we have to be careful of getting stuck in looking back. We should learn from and take elders advise and wisdom, to launch that elder and the youth into the future.
The danger is getting stuck in the past by looking back, just as Lot’s wife did (Genesis 19:26).
She was warned not to look back at the past and how things were, but she did it anyway. She found herself stuck literally and died there.
Moses had the same problem with his people. When it looked like they were facing a challenge, they wanted to turn back and go back to the way things were, even though it ment going back to slavery and not freedom.

We are called to forget those things that are behind, and press toward the mark.

Going back to the Jesse question; “Survivors” are happy just making it through something. “Thrivers” are wanting to advance forward.